Simon and Rachel recap Episode 10 of Series 2, where we chatted with immunologist Professor Sheena Cruickshank and microbiologist Dr. Chloe James.
We dive deeper into what RNA is, how to train bacteriophages and how humans are still evolving.
Transcript
Extracts from the transcript of the episode, edited for readibility.
Rach has some questions about our recent episode with Dr. Chloe James and Professor Sheena Cruickshank.
Rachel: So first of all, Doctor Chloe James mentioned in passing that coronavirus is an RNA virus. What is RNA?
Simon: So DNA is a nucleic acid and RNA is a different nucleic acid. And in fact, we think it's the more ancient one.
If you went back to the first life on earth we know that it didn't use DNA as the mechanism for writing the instructions of life.
Let's just quickly recap what DNA is
Simon: DNA is instructions saying: this is how you should be alive the way that you're alive.
You crack open the nucleus, you've got all your DNA. In a human, stack it end to end - you've got about 2 metres in every single one. It's got all the DNA to make all of you.
If I took a swab from your cheek, [those cheek cells have] the instructions to make all of the rest of you.
Those instructions get passed on through generations and then they build you through things like proteins, fats, that kind of stuff.
So if I was to nick one of your hairs, Rachel, I can make a clone army of you. I'm not going to, don't worry.
DNA is the thing we pass on to the next generation. You stick half your DNA into your sperm or your eggs, you combine that with another set of sperm and eggs and that makes a new individual, mixing those instructions.
That's DNA. It's our means of inheriting. Our means of passing on information. But to use that you have to turn it into RNA.
OK, so what is RNA?
Simon: Before [DNA] there was a whole other world that used RNA. And in fact we still use RNA ourselves.
In order to turn those DNA instructions into something your body can read, they have to be turned into 'messenger' RNA.
This messenger RNA can then leave the nucleus and go off and give the things that build the proteins the instructions.
We know because of things like viruses that long before there was a DNA world there was an RNA world. With this thing which we now use as a kind of intermediate.
This photocopy that you send out to the factories that build you used to be the one. That is, the primary one.
And RNA can be squirted straight into your cell, as happens with viruses. They come along and they hijack the cellular machinery for replicating themselves.
And your protein making machinery looks at those instructions and assumes it's making another bit of you.
When in fact it's making this nasty piece of work that is the virus.
We also discussed bacteriophages. What are they and how do you train them?
Rachel: I've looked them up and they look like a sort of spaceship on legs. A very small one admittedly. And [Dr. Chloe James] mentioned you can train them. How on earth do you train bacteriophages?
Simon: It's a word we're using to substitute for evolve.
What you do is, you get a bacteriophage that eats something like the disease that you're after.
Put them together and the bacteria and the virus enter into an evolutionary arms race, where they try and come up with ways of subverting each other's defence mechanisms.
So the key here is that bacteria have viruses. We call those bacteriaphage. The word phage is Greek and it just means 'eat'. So it's a bacteria eater.
One can be squirted in, and then millions will be created within a bacterial cell, until that cell pops and they burst out.
It gives you two things which you need for evolution to happen: variation and selection.
So you've got loads of variety because there's loads of these different viruses, all of which have been copied either correctly or slightly incorrectly, giving the variety.
Then selection is which ones are the ones that get into the next set of bacteria the quickest.
And that's the key to evolution.
So if you get loads of bacteria and loads of viruses and shove them together, give it a little bit of time because they both replicate so quickly, suddenly you've got something which are like anti-bacterial ninjas.
And finally, what is a cytokine?
Simon: It's not quite a hormone, but it's like a signalling chemical. And it's primarily involved in things like inflammation.
And a cytokine storm?
Simon: This basically means that you get this cascade of cytokines. One of these little signals triggers off another signal which triggers off another signal and causes the body to do all sorts of defence stances.
It basically says, 'Right, everybody, panic! Start reacting, do something now.'
If you get a cytokine storm it means the body has gone into proper panic overdrive.
It's over-reacting, you're getting too much inflammation and things like that, which can in some cases be even more damaging.
There's been some suggestion that some diseases of the past, like Spanish flu, that happened at the end of World War I - perhaps the reason why it killed so many healthy people was because they had such good immune systems that this cytokine storm could get out of hand.
And actually those people with weaker immune systems such as the elderly and children, were the ones that tended to survive, because their bodies didn't over-react as much.
And finally, Simon has a news story for us.
Simon: Well, I know how sad you are, like me, that the Eurovision Song Contest is going to be cancelled because of this whole pandemic thing.
Rachel: Absolutely gutted.
Simon: So some very good news, the AI Eurovision Song Contest is still on.
Rachel: What?
Simon: Yes, an International, Europe-wide artificial intelligence competition for people trying to write programs in neural networks and AI programs to create Eurovision hits.
Rachel: Absolutely incredible.
Simon: Now I'll be honest I'm not a great big pop fan or anything, so I've listened to them. And I can't tell if they're any better or worse than pop songs that are out there.
If you want to take part or a chance to vote just Google 'AI Eurovision Song Contest.'
One I think that's worth checking out is the Dadabots. The Dadabots are a German group, if we can call them that. They've already created a 24/7 live streaming, AI death metal band.
Rachel: I remember discovering a band called Boris in 2002 which had created an hour of screaming death metal. And I thought that was more death metal than anyone ever needed to hear, but apparently not.
Simon: The key here is that these people are able to make all sorts of things by feeding the algorithms different things. The science is probably the same.
It just depends what you feed into it, what you get out. And if you plumb in all of Britain's Eurovision entries, you will get a contestent that will lose.
Rachel: Maybe you won't. Maybe that's the secret to British Eurovision entries, that if you feed them all into one big AI bot regurgitated horrendousness, it'll actually be the best tune that could ever be written.
Simon: I think they just need to feed the same algorithm 'My Lovely Horse' 10,000 times and see what comes out.
Mentioned this episode
2001: A Space Odyssey: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2001:_A_Space_Odyssey_(film)
Patrick Moore’s Gamesmaster: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JCuPX_tmOOo
Ribonucleic acid (RNA): https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/RNA
Messenger RNA: https://www.genome.gov/genetics-glossary/messenger-rna
Transfer RNA: https://www.genome.gov/genetics-glossary/Transfer-RNA
Are we evolving to survive Alzheimers?: https://www.independent.co.uk/life-style/health-and-families/health-news/alzheimers-asthma-high-cholesterol-eradicated-natural-selection-plos-biology-research-a7932566.html
Thunderdome (featuring Tina Turner): https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0HeZrI5Giw4
Cytokine: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cytokine
Cytokine storm: https://www.newscientist.com/term/cytokine-storm/
The AI Eurovision Song Contest: https://www.vprobroadcast.com/titles/ai-songcontest.html
Boris: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Boris_(band)
Dadabots (with apologies in advance): https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MwtVkPKx3RA
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